How about "I'm sorry about that" or "I'm sorry I did that" (or some such construction admitting personal fault), versus "I'm so so sorry" or "I'm sorry to hear that, that must be terrible" (or a construction expressing sympathy)?
Also, I think "I apologize", as opposed to "I'm sorry", pretty much expresses the first without the second.
Actually, I have a guess why the language is confusing that way. I think that sometimes two people are fighting, and one says, "I'm sorry" to the other, and then the fight stops. Person A making the statement is willing to go far enough to express sympathy but not responsibility for B's plight, and B would not stand for anything less than a claim of responsibility, so peace is established on a fraudulent basis.
I think I was 30 before I figured out that "sorry" had the second meaning. This always caused miscommunication with my ex-husband-- I'd be grumbling about something, he'd say "I'm sorry", and I'd say "what are you apologizing about? This isn't your fault."
I end up saying "I'm sorry" and then clarifying to "I'm sympathy-sorry" when it looks like I might have been misunderstood. And sometimes I just start with the latter.
A former boyfriend and I used terms derived from Deborah Tannen to modify the phrase "I'm sorry". We'd say "I'm sorry, girl sorry" for sympathy/empathy; and say "I'm sorry, boy sorry" for apology.
Yes, this is a gross oversimplification of Tannen's work, but it conveyed the message just fine.
I agree. "I'm sorry to hear that happened to you" needs a different term entirely, so as to not be confused with apologies, which alone should take the form "I'm sorry", as in, "I'm sorry I hurt you." -H...
Come to think of it, Czech has a word: "Skoda" that basically means "pity, I am sorry". It works well.
It's also the name of their top selling car. I've driven one, and every time I would mention this to a local person in Prague, they would say "Ah, Skoda."
Not unique to you. You certainly _can_ say "I apologize" and "I sympathize", but mostly people don't.
Oddly, many people seem to use "I'm sorry to hear that" for "I sympathize", which always makes me want to say "Well then I apologize for telling you!" "I'm sorry that happened" would make more sense, but sounds awkward.
"Oh, honey" in the right tone of voice sometimes works.
inadequate patois of saxon invaders trying to pick up anglo barmaids.
I certainly agree, but then I was raised in an environment where expressions of sympathy were mocking, not empathetic, thus it took me a long time to figure out not only that there were two interpretations, but that both could be sincere. I was further confused by having several Indian national coworkers at DEC for whom any form of "I'm sorry" was just a polite conversational placeholder for "sucks to be you then, this changes nothing".
Re: inadequate patois of saxon invaders trying to pick up anglo barmaids.
I was further confused by having several Indian national coworkers at DEC for whom any form of "I'm sorry" was just a polite conversational placeholder for "sucks to be you then, this changes nothing".
That explains the customer disservice I got from Dell a year or two ago.
Re: inadequate patois of saxon invaders trying to pick up anglo barmaids.
I've had that same thought on many occasions! But first you have to think of the phrases, then you have to spread them, and make sure people take them as they're meant...
This is probably the reason that "I'm sorry for your loss" has become the default when talking to someone whose loved one has died. The problem with that is that it's already become a cliched phrase, so it sounds insincere. I actually say things like "I'm apologetic" when that's what I mean, and I sometimes use "regretful" or "chagrined" when I mean those. English is full of words for these nuances, but they don't sound conversational.
it's already become a cliched phrase, so it sounds insincere
I've been trying to teach myself to say "I'm sorry to hear that" when people I don't know well tell me about a tragic event, because it is expected that I do so. It doesn't come naturally because it sounds phony to me, like the follow-up should be "I'm sorry to hear that, now how about those Mets?" I have been trying to train myself to think of it as anything other than a trite conversation-ender. I usually have to preface it with something more emotional (if corny) like "Awww, gee, I'm sorry to hear that" or "Wow, that must be really hard, I'm sorry to hear that."
Like many of the other respondents, wolfkitn and I go through this dance all the time. Something bad will have happened or she's not feeling well, and I'll tell her, "I'm sorry." Of course, she'll respond, "That's OK, it's not your fault." And, my response: "Well, I know, but I empathize." For some reason, just saying "I empathize," from the beginning doesn't feel like it conveys the full emotion.
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Also, I think "I apologize", as opposed to "I'm sorry", pretty much expresses the first without the second.
Huhuhuhhuuhuh "lacuna".
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Actually, I have a guess why the language is confusing that way. I think that sometimes two people are fighting, and one says, "I'm sorry" to the other, and then the fight stops. Person A making the statement is willing to go far enough to express sympathy but not responsibility for B's plight, and B would not stand for anything less than a claim of responsibility, so peace is established on a fraudulent basis.
Beats killin' each other.
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I think I was 30 before I figured out that "sorry" had the second meaning. This always caused miscommunication with my ex-husband-- I'd be grumbling about something, he'd say "I'm sorry", and I'd say "what are you apologizing about? This isn't your fault."
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If you find something else, let me know.
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Yes, this is a gross oversimplification of Tannen's work, but it conveyed the message just fine.
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That is the best idea ever. Wow.
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It worked for us.
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CZ
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It's also the name of their top selling car. I've driven one, and every time I would mention this to a local person in Prague, they would say "Ah, Skoda."
CZ
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Oddly, many people seem to use "I'm sorry to hear that" for "I sympathize", which always makes me want to say "Well then I apologize for telling you!"
"I'm sorry that happened" would make more sense, but sounds awkward.
"Oh, honey" in the right tone of voice sometimes works.
inadequate patois of saxon invaders trying to pick up anglo barmaids.
Re: inadequate patois of saxon invaders trying to pick up anglo barmaids.
That explains the customer disservice I got from Dell a year or two ago.
Re: inadequate patois of saxon invaders trying to pick up anglo barmaids.
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I've been trying to teach myself to say "I'm sorry to hear that" when people I don't know well tell me about a tragic event, because it is expected that I do so. It doesn't come naturally because it sounds phony to me, like the follow-up should be "I'm sorry to hear that, now how about those Mets?" I have been trying to train myself to think of it as anything other than a trite conversation-ender. I usually have to preface it with something more emotional (if corny) like "Awww, gee, I'm sorry to hear that" or "Wow, that must be really hard, I'm sorry to hear that."
The I'm Sorry dance
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Re: I'm sorry