Les Mis... What's the big deal?

[jbsegal]

So, after The Star Wars Trilogy Musical Edition ganked something like 1/2 its music from Les Mis, I decided it should actually listen to the original.

I borrowed The Complete Symphonic Recording from dancingdeer.

I'm not impressed.

Thoughts: While I'm not much of a fan of opera, so I can't really compare, it really feels to me like 50%+ of the show is recitative and I don't like it.

Related: This is the most un-lyrical musical I've ever heard. Much of the time, it sounds like it wants to be a straight play but someone decided to graft on music.

Yes, musicals often have themes or leitmotifs, it often feels like this show has, alongside the 50% recitative, another 30% made up of the same... 3? 4? songs, reused and reused and reused.

There's not a thing about the recording that evokes 'France' for me. The occasional french phrase feels forced and artificial, especially alongside the cockney accents of the lower-class characters.

The use of synthesizers in the scoring is... anachronistic, in a way I can't let wash over me.

Specific to this recording: I hate Gary Morris' voice/accent. As he's a TX? TN? born country singer, this isn't that surprising.

So, why the heque is this such a popular show? Sure, there are a couple of nice songs, but they're a very small percentage of the whole. Is it totally different live? Really?

Comments

[tamidon.livejournal.com]

I can't stand Les Mis. Worse choice for a musical ever, and I include Elephant! in that(obscure movie reference bonus time)

[luckylefty.livejournal.com]

Just so you know someone appreciates your obscure movie references, that's one of my favorite movies. I think that Streetcar! (obscure TV reference) may rank as even worse than Elephant! and Les Miz.

I also have the theory that Leonard Bernstein once had an argument with someone over what constituted an appropriate subject for a musical, with Lennie on the side of "no subject is inappropriate". The person on the other side of the argument responded by naming the most inappropriate work he could think of for making into a musical...

And that's what inspired Bernstein to write "Candide".

(which I think is a great musical, but a pretty impressively inappropriate novel for musicalization).

[jbsegal.livejournal.com]

For me, it's not the subject matter. I'm fine with that. Musical Tragedy is a perfectly valid genre.

I just demand musicality.

[theletterelle.livejournal.com]

He is a real man! Not an elephant!

Can he make it?

*tick, tick, tick*

No, he can't.

[coraline]

i'm with you on this. i don't find the music itself so grating that it's unpleasant to play or sing (i.e. isolated bits in SW:ME or the medley from it i sang in HS chorus) but i've never understood its immense popularity.

[chienne-folle.livejournal.com]

My parents love, love, love Les Miz, and I don't get it. To me, the play seems emotionally manipulative in a pathetically heavy-handed way, so I find it either annoying or laughable, depending on what mood I'm in. But my parents seem to feel inspired or uplifted by it. Of course, my parents aren't like yours -- mine are in contention for the Least Cool Parents Ever award. :-)

Cory

[mangosteen]

Whatever you might think of the show, it's really interesting technical theater. So, yeah, hearing "can you hear the steeple ping" is annoying, but seeing the World's Fastest Moving Scenery is kind of fun.

[jbsegal.livejournal.com]

But that sort of thinking gets us Frank Gehry buildings blotting the landscape...

[moominmolly.livejournal.com]

You and Frank Gehry! :)

I saw it live in London when I was in college, to see what all the fuss was about. I still don't know. It was clearly a Big Spectacle, but I just didn't get into it. Eh.

[jbsegal.livejournal.com]

You and Frank Gehry! :)

Yeah, I know. Almost a non-sequiter, but really not. :)

[paigemom.livejournal.com]

It is totally different live, and not just from a techie's standpoint (watching that barricade come together...I get goosebumps from the memory of the thrill every time I think of it!) Live, it so sucks you in.

I cherish my copy of the complete symphonic mainly because I can sit and listen to it and remember the staging in my head. (I've seen Les Miz twice and would go again tomorrow if I could).

I find the end particularly poignant, especially now that I am a parent. I cry every damn time. And that's just listening to it, not seeing it on stage.

It's in my top 10 of favorite musicals.

[jbsegal.livejournal.com]

Hurm. I don't see (hear) it.

I suppose part of it is that I'm not much of a fan of Victor Hugo.

I find the music mostly... bland.

[protogeek.livejournal.com]

I agree -- it's totally different live. I grew up on musicals (going to them, plus singing and acting), so I never really questioned it and now I don't really remember it well enough to critique it as an adult. I do remember that grand-ness of the scenery and the movement -- the way the scenery was a fully involved player. I don't think it's a bad thing to need to be able to "see" the play in your head as you listen to the music for it to fully impact you.

Not sayin' it's a great musical, but I don't think it's *that* bad. There's always... Cats.

[cz_unit]

It's not a bad show; I highly recommend seeing it up close in a small Broadway theater.

However as for catching the revolution mood, nothing comes close to South Park: Bigger/Longer/UnCut. The delivery of La Resistance completely captures the spirit of revolution in a way that even Mes Mis could not do.

CZ

[jbsegal.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's part of my point. The parodies of Les Mis are better than the original. That's not right.

[tamidon.livejournal.com]

Personally, I just want to yell"It was only a fucking loaf of bread , you morons" at all the dramatic points(never sat thru the whole thing actually)

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah. :-} But part of the point of the whole novel in the first place was that people really did get insanely, inappropriately long sentences for stealing a loaf of bread or a small packet of lace, not just in France, but also in England (and probably other countries, too). If you look at the ship's manifest of the First Fleet that transported British criminals to Australia, most of them really were just cases of petty theft.

[whuffle.livejournal.com]

I agree with you that this show is no masterpiece. If you want a masterpiece of light opera that would have been considered a musical if it were written today, listen to Strauss' "Die Fledermaus" But its tough to find a really stellar recording. All of the ones I have encountered have someone who's casting I object to.

That said, people like this show for its tragedy, pageantry, triumph, etc. Its the whole feel-good package. Just look at things like Phantom of the Opera and Mis Saigon. Same routine. Or Brigadoon and Showboat in their time. Or Chorus Line. Traditionally, a good musical has to be close enough in style to the popular music of its day that the tunes stick in every theater0goer's head and become unforgettable. Just look at shakespeare, half the music used in his plays was spoofed off common barroom songs. It was a hook for the common masses in the audience.

Today, I would say that the most revolutionary thing in theater is stuff like Lion King. Its productions where they are taking accepted theater tech and turning the usage on its ear. Where they are again working to integrate symbolism and style from a dozen cultures into a unified whole. People still love their pageantry and their stories and good music which they can grasp easily. So you still have to keep within certain accepted standards if you want to have a hit on your hands.

I worked on a pre-touring workshop production of a show about 10 years ago that was ultimately headed for broadway if its tour cities went well. (It never did, but that's a different story.) It was a musical version of Paper Moon. The reasons it failed: the music was stylistically based on period-authentic depression era music which really didn't play to modern audiences, and there was no chemistry between the adult leads (though the child and adult lead combos worked out great) and the show moved too slowly at certain points (which they fixed during workshop productions) and they had the poor fortune to try touring this damned show at the same time as the 20th anniversary of the musical Annie. The two shows had the same basic premise and case composition and the audiences just weren't interested in too many shows of this type at the same time. Its all about over-exposure and timing the subject matter...

[feste-sylvain.livejournal.com]

I worked on a [...] musical version of Paper Moon. The reasons it failed: the music was stylistically based on period-authentic depression era music which really didn't play to modern audiences

A happy exception to this is "O Brother, Where Art Thou", which used the bluegrass music of the Depression and the "old-timey" music that the people of that time were listening to. My father grew up in the midwest hating bluegrass music, but when he saw this movie, he had to say "it really sounds good when it's played on-key".

[jbsegal.livejournal.com]

Traditionally, a good musical has to be close enough in style to the popular music of its day that the tunes stick in every theater0goer's head and become unforgettable.

And here's part of my problem. The music isn't that good, IMO. I like old musicals, I like new musicals. But what they have in common IS good, singable, catchy tunes - more than just one or 2 signature pieces. I don't see that Les Mis has that.

I agree with TLK, from what I know about it. I agree with Brigadoon and Showboat and Chorus Line.

I've never had any interest in Phantom or Miss Saigon. Given my experience with their peer, Les Miz, I'm not going to be seeking them out any time soon. (In general, I find Lloyd-Weber overrated...)

I just do NOT have the Les Mis zeitgeist, I guess.

[coraline]

FYI, les mis isn't ALW.
neither is miss saigon (they're both boubil).
phantom and cats are (but i assume you knew that -- you probably knew the preceding as well, bt it wasn't clear from how you said it.)

[jbsegal.livejournal.com]

I knew 3/4 of that... not that MS and LM are by the same guy.

Even LESS interested in MS now...

[coraline]

i have never seen either of them, but i enjoy the music from MS on its own, unlike les mis. but it definitely does the same emotionally manipulativ thing, if that bugs you. but i think it's a better musical (from a purely musical standpoint) than LM.

[feste-sylvain.livejournal.com]

I loved Les Miserables. But then again, I'm a francophile. As a francophile, I can appreciate the adaptation of Hugo's novel, and thus forgive such ham-handed Anglo-Germanic musical stylings as were dumped on the cast. As a francophile, I can appreciate that this is the story of a man's entire life, which must perforce end with his death.

And "it's only a loaf of bread, you morons!" was exactly Hugo's point. The French love of law and order (as some outgrowth of truth and beauty) was put to the test by the revolution (according to Hugo).

As for the show itself, it is a technical marvel. The suicide scene, in which the actor stays standing but the bridge shoots up, still takes my breath away.

And it still sucks what happened to Eponine.

[jbsegal.livejournal.com]

As a francophile, I can appreciate the adaptation of Hugo's novel, and thus forgive such ham-handed Anglo-Germanic musical stylings as were dumped on the cast.

I'm not /particularly/ a francophile, but somehow, that I /can't/ forgive the ham-handed Anglo-Germanic musical stylings seems to me to be /more/ francophilic than letting them get away with it.

[tamidon.livejournal.com]

It worked as a book, and in french. In english as a musical it is ridiculous, but then we have very different views on what makes good theater.

[paigemom.livejournal.com]

"As for the show itself, it is a technical marvel. The suicide scene, in which the actor stays standing but the bridge shoots up, still takes my breath away."

Oh, that is some of the most awesome staging EVER.

I am in no way a Hugo fan, but I love Les Miz.

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

I'm with you.

It probably doesn't hurt that I saw it in 1986, in London, with most of the original cast still in the production (Patti LuPone had left, although Jackie Marks, who replaced her as Fantine, IS on the cast album, just as the taunting factory girl, and we had an understudy Marius, and the children had rotated out), and we were in the 10th row, and I was 16.

Emotionally manipulative? Sure. But I was in tears by "I Dreamed A Dream," and I drove my parents crazy for years afterwards singing "On My Own" in the shower, and I STILL have a hard time getting through "A Little Fall of Rain" without breaking down, and... yeah. I don't care what the musical flaws are, or how repetitive it is, or ANY of that. This show OWNS me.

Eponine's interjections in "A Heart Full of Love" and her lines in the big ensemble of "One Day More" always get me, too.

I have the problem of not being able to see touring company versions of it, though. The London production absolutely spoiled me. The touring company production I saw of it was just PAINFUL... if I have a better chance of hitting Eponine's notes than the singer on stage, forget it.

I didn't mind the Cockney accents, either. It seemed like a reasonable way of signalling the class differences to an English-speaking audience. Possibly less effective for American audiences in general, but my ear's been trained for British accents for a long time.

Is Frances Ruffelle on the CSR, or did they use Lea Salonga for Eponine? Frances Ruffelle's voice is far, far more appealing, to my ear. Warmer, and with an interesting buzz in the lower register that stops short of vibrato but adds depth.

I am not rational about this show. I never will be. If it doesn't grab anyone else the same way... their privilege. But I love it and always will.

[xeger.livejournal.com]

There are a lot of dreadful cast recordings of les miz out there. I think of it as being candy fluff though - entertaining, occasionally catchy... much like watching TV.

[jbsegal.livejournal.com]

The sheer NUMBER of Les Mi[sz] cast recordings out there is really pretty disturbing.

That said, I gather that, in theory, The Complete Symphonic Recording is one of the best of them.

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

London. London London London. It leaves OUT a lot of the recitative from the CSR that flattens out sadly when there's no staging to accompany it, the arrangements are more to the strings and less to the brass than the Broadway versions, and there are even differences in the LYRICS.

And, Frances Ruffelle as Eponine.

Okay, maybe I like it best because it's the closest to what I first SAW.

But... London.

[gravitrue.livejournal.com]

It's got a catchy tune or two, but yes, it's much more interesting to watch than just to listen to. The giant turntable was my fave. I'm not sure it repeats themes any more than star wars does; darth shows up, you hear his theme music. It's not the approach used by traditional musicals, but for a tv/movie conditioned audience, I think it works ok.

It's kind of overwrought; at one or two "serious" points, my dad and I laughed. I think its popularity comes from hitting the same kind of cheesy soft spot that successful sitcoms like "cheers" do; just enough meaning to resonate, without enough reality to disturb.

[volund.livejournal.com]

Yes, musicals often have themes or leitmotifs, it often feels like this show has, alongside the 50% recitative, another 30% made up of the same... 3? 4? songs, reused and reused and reused.

Not as bad as the worst of Lloyd Webber's works, which it seems use the same 2 or 3 tunes over and over throughout. I'm thinking in particular of his, IMHO, absolute worst opus ... not Cats (talk about insubstantial stories, as we recall the previous mention of Candide), but ... Aspects of Love.

("Love changes everything ... " indeed! It couldn't rescue this dog.)

Hell, even the best of his stuff, his collaborations with Tim Rice (Jesus Christ Superstar and Evita) make heavy use of leitmotifs.

Wagner has a lot to answer for ...

[jbsegal.livejournal.com]

Even though I don't think I've ever heard any of these but JCS all the way through... but maybe you've just identified what I don't like about ALW. Hm.

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

Not as bad as the worst of Lloyd Webber's works, which it seems use the same 2 or 3 tunes over and over throughout.

Remember: Copying from others is plagiarism. Copying from yourself is style. ;-)

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

What always gets me about the music from "Evita" is the part where you can hear the swiped Emerson, Lake and Palmer riff!

[vettecat.livejournal.com]

Never seen it, but having read the book I just can't imagine anyone making that into a musical...

P.S. "Something" is misspelled in "Something to add?" :-)
P.P.S. Did you ever connect with S. about making a cameo appearance?

[jbsegal.livejournal.com]

P.S. - fixed
P.P.S. - I owe him mail.

[vettecat.livejournal.com]

P.S. Glad to help!
P.P.S. Ok, just so you both know who's "it"... :-)